I was cleaning up (aka deleting) files on my desktop and came across this debate I had with a hick back in December. I decided to post it here so I can delete the original. The debate started on a facebook wall so there’s a little missing… the rest (below) was sent back-and-forth via private message. There might be some context missing but overall it should be fairly coherent and easy to follow. All of his words are italicized.
Dave Barnes December 4 at 10:08pm
i was only able to reply to the posts because Jimmy Sengenberger (my cousin) was tagged. he must have undone it or something so i don’t have access anymore. id like to continue to reply somehow…
Ryan Williams December 6 at 1:31am
you can’t reply on the note? you can reply to me through the inbox
Dave Barnes December 6 at 12:56pm
RE: “You are an independent?? And you defend these radical policies? You must be one of the most radical left independents I have ever come across.
Which policy(s) do you consider radical?
RE: You seem to be supporting abortion, gun control, demonizing fox news, you look like leftist to me.
I don’t believe the gov’t has the right to FORCE someone to go through 9 months of pregnancy and potentially life-threatening labor, so yes I am technically pro-choice. However, I believe there is a RIGHT choice… but that is up to the woman, her doctor, the situation at hand. I despise the actual practice, but for the first 8 weeks (the embryonic stage) I have no qualms especially in cases of rape or incest. It’s a medical procedure that must be on the table. Through better education I hope that we can reduce the number of abortions considerably. This is a reasonable position.
I’ll get to gun control shortly.
Fox News sponsored the Tea Party rallies, thus showing how they are directly trying to influence public policy and absolutely shattering their “fair and balanced” claims. That is NOT the job of a news organization. MSNBC clearly has a bias as well, but they don’t go to these extremes.
RE: By the way 80% of all Americans are pro 2nd Amendment. In the hands of responsible individuals, firearms prevent violence. You think you are going to stop violence by taking away guns?? That is incredibly ignorant, people will use knives or whatever they can get their hands on.”
Yes, in the hands of responsible individuals, firearms prevent violence. But YOU are being ignorant in assuming that these are the only people able to get their hands on a weapon. When it comes to gang violence, it’s much easier to shoot someone than to stab. It’s easy to pull a trigger. The other is more direct, as you have to feel the knife sinking into flesh. If everyone were armed with knives instead of guns, odds are very good that the number of actual murders would decrease considerably.
RE: “You haven’t refuted anything, you just give your own opinions; statements that are impossible to refute you just say they don’t matter, you have given in to what this note specifically says and you seem to not care.
I don’t have access to our previous discussion, but I recall agreeing on some statements. I just disagreed with how you jumped to certain conclusions. You had mentioned that Obama had Muslim family members, suggesting he must be bias toward Muslims. I acknowledged that the former was true, but that hardly *proves* he has any bias. To suggest otherwise is a matter of YOUR opinion. And what irrefutable facts have you made that I claimed “didn’t matter”?
RE: I use these terms because these are the only people that will continue to defend this man.
Actually, political affiliation doesn’t guarantee an Obama defense. Most reasonable and informed people recognize that he’s, overall, doing the best he can under very complicated circumstances. I myself am deeply disappointed by his decision on Afghanistan and his inaction when it comes to marriage rights for homosexuals. I also think the stimulus hasn’t been as effective as it should have been, but it did inspire confidence which is arguably even more valuable.
RE: I do, however, believe that his policies are extremely radical.
Saving companies that are “too big to fail” is radical? Reforming healthcare to increase the number of insured American is radical? Opposing the Iraq War from start to finish is radical? Ending the use of torture is radical? Seeking to close Gitmo is radical?
Name some “radical” Obama policies. Enlighten me.
RE: I don’t think that he wants the America that has brought us to prosperity.
How so? The 2-year stimulus plan, at the very least, inspired increased confidence and helped the unemployed pay their bills and feed their families. The stock market is doing quite well and November had the smallest number of job losses since 2007 (125,000 expected job losses, instead it was 11,000). Obviously losing ANY jobs isn’t a good thing, but these latest numbers show that the situation is improving and that isn’t a matter of opinion. Why would Obama take steps to improve our economy if he doesn’t want us to be prosperous?
RE: He has said on numerous occasions that “we must redistribute the wealth in this country”.
The tax rate on the rich was 50% when Reagan first came into office. Roosevelt had the tax rate as high as 90%. Obama has suggested increasing taxes on the rich anywhere from 3-5%. These would bring the tax rate up to, I believe, 39%. It would more accurately be a return to the 90’s by simply undoing Bush’s tax cuts on the wealthiest top 5%. This is far from gouging the wealthy and certainly isn’t radical. It should also be noted that ALL TAXES are, in one way or another, a redistribution of wealth. Should we eliminate taxes altogether?
RE: Like I said, he is not a liberal at all, he is far from it. True Americans defend the constitution, the bill of rights and the wishes of the founders and framers. Obama does not care about these.”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it was under Bush that our country committed acts of torture, practiced rendition, and denied due process for alleged terrorists. The Patriot Act also allowed Bush to wiretap anyone in the country, a major breach in privacy. He also declared a war based on lies which he continued to peddle even AFTER they were fully refuted. All of these acts were UNCONSTITUTIONAL and Obama has been fighting to reverse every one of them. Where do you get off suggesting Obama, of all people, doesn’t care about the constitution? (But yes, he is certainly not a liberal in practice.)
RE: “Fox news may not be completely balanced but it is far above and beyond the likes of msnbc, cnn, hln, pbs and all the others. Actually, the one network that has very little bias is bbc america, I watch them candidly.
I agree that BBC is very fair, but PBS is as well. CNN, out of the Big 3, is the least bias. Fox is for the extreme right, MSNBC for the moderate left. However, I’m generally opposed to all the major networks as they carry far too many “fluff” pieces rather than actual news. The Daily Show is more my style.
RE: “When a network will do nothing but kiss the ass of a president that has spent more money than all that came before him in less than a year there is a problem.”
If a pipe burst in your home, you fix it immediately. If a window cracks, you get it replaced. When you find mold in your fridge, you clean it out. We had eight years of decay ripping apart the country. So much of our system was broken or continued to be broken during the Bush years due to poor decisions and neglect. If things were fixed as they happened, the price tag wouldn’t be as high now. When the whole house is falling apart, it’s a bigger and more expensive job. Which is why it’s disingenuous for you (or the media) to simply bash Obama’s spending (which Fox News loves to do). If not for the stimulus, we’d have a financial collapse of Depression-like proportions. If we ignore reforming health care then prices will continue to skyrocket along with the number of uninsured. These all cost money, but they are necessary and unavoidable and LONG OVERDUE (which is the biggest problem of all).
RE: To say that the ratings are high because people want entertainment is ludicrous, I can’t even believe you would say that. If people want entertainment, they don’t watch news, they watch movies and tv shows. The ratings are high because not everyone in this country is a retard and will just sit back and watch Olbermann try to demonize a bunch of people on the right.”
Olbermann is the left’s counter to the right’s O’Reilly, Hannity, and Beck (and the majority of Fox News) who do little else but demonize the left. So what’s your fucking point?
Most people ARE retarded. A very thorough study has shown that 54% of those who watch the Daily Show/Colbert Report have high knowledge of politics and world affairs compared to 41% of CNN viewers and an even more dismal 35% of Fox News viewers.
Here’s the full study. The numbers I cited are on the final chart at the bottom of the page. http://people-press.org/report/319/public-knowledge-of-current-affairs-little-changed-by-news-and-information-revolutions
Ryan Williams December 6 at 6:32pm
You seem to be defending Obama on all of his policies, maybe not all but if not then most. Everyone who supports capitalism and free markets knows that bailouts never work in the long run, they only deplete our federal resources and show big business that they do not have to be fiscally responsible. Now Bush did the same thing, to a point, but you will soon find that I am not a huge Bush supporter, I like some of his policies and dislike some. Bush was not a TRUE conservative. The policies of gov run health care, being soft with international leaders, demonizing a news org that questions your policies, placing all these marxist czars as his advisers, hiring tax cheats to his Admin, trying to indoctrinate elementary school children, advocating for a one world government, setting the building blocks for wealth redistribution, the list goes on and on; are all radical policies.
Look, I believe that the current system we have for abortion works. We let the citizens vote on a municipal level. I hate abortion, it is used for birth control and that is not right; an unborn baby has rights as well, we have established that the baby is a separate entity of the mother. In society people MUST have consequences for their actions. I am not refuting the fact that government has no right to interfere, however, they do when LIFE is considered. You are a man and you don’t believe that the father has any say in the decision, that is despicable. I can respect your overall position on abortion, you seem to be against it but not going to step in and oppose others, and you seem to be geared towards education, which I can agree with 100%.
You still did not answer a lot of my questions about fox news, you just pick out certain sentences and reply to those which you choose. You have given up on talking about the ratings. On O’Reilly’s program you will always see both sides of the debate, he is an independent and well represented on his program. People hate O’Reilly because he used to be very aggressive and used to shut people out, he hasn’t been that way for a long time. Glenn Beck is very libertarian based, he actually does not talk partisan politics anymore. He says many times on his program that he will vote for ANYONE (dem, repub, lib, cons) that he agrees with on policy issues. Greta is also an independent and her program reflects that. Sean is a righty big time, I agree with a lot of what he has to say, you don’t have to. The rest of Fox News is general news reporting. I don’t think you watch fox news at all, you seem to be basing your perspective off of what other people have said about the org. Fox news didn’t necessarily sponsor the tea parties, they just COVERED THEM a lot, something the rest refused to do. You think PBS is balanced! Why? Because they have 4 liberals and 1 conservative??
Have you ever watched Olbermann, or the ED Show, they are terrible, there is no real reporting, just solely opinion. The majority of Olbermann’s broadcast is right wing bashing. His show will be off the air soon so who cares.
The vast majority of gun owners in this country ARE responsible gun owners, you cannot punish all based on the actions of a few. Good luck with your stance on gun control, it will never happen. An armed populous keeps us safe from intruders and from ourselves.
You have to remember that I did not write that note and I do not agree with everything. On the issues of Obama and the Muslims, the birth controversy, the statements about his grandparents, professors and friends, I don’t read much into those.
Everyone on the left is pissed at Obama for his foreign policy. He is essentially running the Bush foreign policy and in all actuality he is doing a decent job. You said that Bush was being unconstitutional and lied to the American people and you were right. However, if you knew the real strategy and reasons for doing what he did you would change your stance. Ignorance abounds among Americans and our foreign policy and it seems like that has not escaped you either. There are very few people in the country who actually see our sensitive security information, intelligence information and safety info. Bush went to Afghanistan to find bin laden, period. He went to Iraq in 2003 for many reasons: He realized a threat, realized that a dictator needed to be overthrown, realized that by sending our military there we would suck all terrorists and insurgents into that area instead of having them come here (or anywhere else), realized that our national interests in depleting the middle east’s oil reserves required us to have control of the land that the majority of the oil is pumped out of, realized that we would have a strategic ally in the middle east other than Israel and realized that Iraq along with Afghanistan are strategic points for us when it comes to nuclear Iran. Now you think the Bush Admin is going to go on every news org in the world when they make their decision to go to war and say all of that as their strategy? hell no, that’s suicide. Now we know that Saddam had wmd’s at one point in time, so we used that as an excuse. The former bathists in Iraq said that the majority of them were destroyed or given to Syria.
Now the patriot act does violate the constitution but it is justified as an executive order to ensure the safety of American citizens. How many terrorist plots and attacks have been foiled since the patriot act was initiated?? Many, remember Zazi here in Denver earlier this fall? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. They can tap my phone, internet, whatever, only criminals have to fear.
Let me say, so that we are clear, that I am all for the legalization and mass taxation of marijuana. It is unconstitutional to restrict our citizens, it will be great for our economy and damaging to the latin cartels. I am all for homosexual marriage rights, again it is unconstitutional to try and restrict people from getting married regardless of affiliation. People need to remember that just because you have religious freedom doesn’t mean that you can base political ideology off of those religious beliefs and push that onto others. Again, these should be voted for on a municipal level.
You are missing the entire point, Obama believes that his policies will bring us to economic prosperity, but they won’t. He doesn’t want the nation to fail, but it will. He says that his policies are not socialistic but they are. He is the world’s greatest bullshitter, how do you think he got elected? Also, where is all this money he is spending going to come from? Please tell me. His fiscal irresponsibility is going to cripple our economy.
The Daily Show is your style???? Jon Stewart has said time and again it is not a news show, it is strictly a comedy show.
I am all for health care reform but not government controlled.
You think all fox does is demonize the left, fox never attacks anyone personally, something cnn, msnbc, hln do on a daily bases. I am not a big Sarah Palin fan but what they did to her was downright pathetic. You think cnn is the least bias? Wow
That study you presented does not draw any REAL conclusions, what does “a high knowledge of politics and world affairs” even mean? That could be derived from anything.
I just found out that you were being misleading!!!???!!! Something the left has thrived off of for years. You compared the entire network of fox to the daily show and colbert report, which are comedy shows, they aren’t even news and gladly admit that. Colbert and Daily are at 54%, O’Reilly at 51% and Limbaugh (I agree with Rush on about 85% of what he says) at 50%, come on man don’t be misleading. I’m betting that your pride will not let you admit you were being misleading just as your pride will not allow you to admit you are wrong when the evidence is presented in front of you. Just because someone voted for Obama doesn’t mean that they have to defend all that he does. I voted for Bush twice and don’t defend everything he did.
Dave Barnes December 7 at 12:59am
RE: The policies of gov run health care, being soft with international leaders, demonizing a news org that questions your policies, placing all these marxist czars as his advisers, hiring tax cheats to his Admin, trying to indoctrinate elementary school children, advocating for a one world government, setting the building blocks for wealth redistribution, the list goes on and on; are all radical policies.
1) I can see an argument if Obama was pushing for a single-payer system, but this isn’t the case. A public option is a strictly OPTIONAL program. If the majority of the country signs on and it does evolve into a single-payer system, then that is the will of the people. On the other hand, if barely anyone signs on then the program will fade away. This is democratic, not radical.
2) Soft with international leaders? I assume you’re one of those types that thinks humility and respecting other customs is “soft”. I won’t even attempt to show you how fucking close-minded that makes you. What I will do is point out that the rest of the world HAS shown more respect for us since Obama took office. For most rational people, that means something. It is admittedly radical in comparison to Bush, who declared nations as “evil” and rejected diplomacy. How many friends did that gain us?
3) Czars act solely as advisers. Who the fuck cares what they personally think? What matters is if they objectively meet the requirements of the job appointed to them. Name one who has failed and why and we can discuss this further. Otherwise your criticism falls flat.
4) Those “tax cheats” owed back taxes, like many Americans. Those that were appointed paid up. Those that didn’t weren’t assigned a position. Again your criticism falls flat.
5) Indoctrinating school kids?? There’s no nice way to reply to this. You are an ignorant fucking buffoon if you believe that one! The text of his speech was available for parents to read before he spoke. It contained nothing but positive messages regarding education. Clearly you didn’t watch it. Don’t bring this up again until you’ve seen it and can point out a specific moment where he attempted to “indoctrinate” children.
6) One-world government? You’ll need to explain that one.
9) Wealth distribution = returning to the tax rates of the 90’s. *How horrible*.
RE: we have established that the baby is a separate entity of the mother.
No we haven’t. It’s an embryo for 8 weeks, then a fetus, then upon birth it is a baby. Anything that cannot exist on it’s own is a parasite, completely dependent on it’s host (the mother) for its most basic needs. How come parents say they have two kids and “one the way”? Why does the census not count an embryo or fetus? It’s not a human.
RE: In society people MUST have consequences for their actions. I am not refuting the fact that government has no right to interfere, however, they do when LIFE is considered.
A fly is life too, but you still squash it. A developing human is just that because it remains *potential* life until birth. Prior to that I contend that it is NOT a human life. A fetus is close enough to being physically human that it makes me personally uneasy with aborting it. As far as consequences are considered, I think you’d agree that it must be traumatic for a pregnant 14-year-old to tell her parents that she’s pregnant and then have an abortion. That’s enough of a consequence in itself.
RE: Have you ever watched Olbermann, or the ED Show, they are terrible, there is no real reporting, just solely opinion.
I have no intention of discussing Fox News any further with you because of this statement. If you can’t see that Olbermann and Beck/Hannity/O’Reilly do the EXACT SAME GODDAMN THING except with different political angles, then you’re fucking blind. Absolutely blind. I love what Olbermann has to say, but I would never be as ignorant as you and claim him to be anything but bias.
RE: The vast majority of gun owners in this country ARE responsible gun owners, you cannot punish all based on the actions of a few.
Oh, but we can wire-tap all Americans anytime because a select few *might* be plotting a terrorist attack. If you’re going to be wrong, at least be consistent instead of picking and choosing when you’re little rules should or shouldn’t apply.
RE: You said that Bush was being unconstitutional and lied to the American people and you were right. However, if you knew the real strategy and reasons for doing what he did you would change your stance.
You think it’s okay for a President to break the constitution and blatantly lie to the American public??
RE: Bush went to Afghanistan to find bin laden, period.
Then why didn’t he give the order to have bin Laden killed when we found him in Tora Bora? It was widely reported that we HAD HIM IN OUR SIGHTS in December 2001 and we let him go for fear of a “backlash” (whatever that’s supposed to mean). If Bush really wanted bin Laden dead, he’d be dead. But instead he decided to play in Iraq’s sandbox.
RE: Now the patriot act does violate the constitution but it is justified as an executive order to ensure the safety of American citizens.
The Patriot Act violates the constitution. And you’re okay with that. You bash Obama for, as you claim, ignoring the founding fathers and the constitution but hey, if Bush did it then it’s okay? Make up your mind!
RE: Now you think the Bush Admin is going to go on every news org in the world when they make their decision to go to war and say all of that as their strategy? hell no, that’s suicide.
So the Bush Administration thought it was smart to lie to cover up their true intention of spreading the American Empire (a primary objective of Neo-Conservatives)? That might have worked if their lies weren’t, y’know, exposed in the end. Once they were known, public opinion turned strongly against the War. I thought a democracy responded to the will of the people? If Bush was honest from the start we’d never have wound up in Iraq. The people wouldn’t allow it.
RE: They can tap my phone, internet, whatever, only criminals have to fear.
Just because you’re comfortable being watched by big brother 24/7 doesn’t mean everyone else is. You forget you’re not the only citizen in this country. The majority, I guarantee, does NOT feel comfortable with that.
RE: Obama believes that his policies will bring us to economic prosperity, but they won’t. He doesn’t want the nation to fail, but it will.
Then why are you still living here? If you truly believe we’re doomed then you should get out while you can!
RE: He says that his policies are not socialistic but they are.
Are you referring again to the 3% raise in taxes on the wealthy and the completely optional gov’t insurance program and the bailouts? Because if that’s all you have, then you have nothing.
RE: He is the world’s greatest bullshitter, how do you think he got elected?
He got more votes than McCain. The election process is pretty simple. And if you want to talk about bullshitting, think about when Bush said this during HIS campaign:
“If we don’t stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we’re going to have a serious problem coming down the road, and I’m going to prevent that.”
Here’s the link, cowboy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGDwvAbx_fg
RE: Also, where is all this money he is spending going to come from? Please tell me. His fiscal irresponsibility is going to cripple our economy.
The same place Bush got all his money: China. Unfortunately, Bush created problems with China’s money and now Obama’s need more of it to FIX those problems. (Health care reform, by the way, reduces the deficit.)
Dave Barnes December 7 at 12:59am
RE: I just found out that you were being misleading!!!???!!! Something the left has thrived off of for years.
Again with the political jabs. Would it be fair for me to say the same about the right? It doesn’t enhance this debate, so cut that shit out. Moving on…
RE: You compared the entire network of fox to the daily show and colbert report, which are comedy shows, they aren’t even news and gladly admit that.
How is that misleading? I was citing the study on which audiences are more knowledge. And I didn’t say the entire Fox network was inferior to the Daily Show/Colbert Report, I said Fox NEWS had the less informed audience. The study supports this.
RE: Colbert and Daily are at 54%, O’Reilly at 51% and Limbaugh (I agree with Rush on about 85% of what he says) at 50%, come on man don’t be misleading.
Again I ask you: how was I misleading? One, I didn’t even mention Rush. And second, I didn’t specify O’Reilly. If you read the study, it has Fox News at 35% and O’Reilly at 51%. This means viewers of just O’Reilly are well-informed, despite his bullshit commentary, but viewers of Fox News in general are not as well-informed. I specifically compared the Daily Show (54%) with the general Fox News viewers (35%), not O’Reilly’s audience.
RE: I’m betting that your pride will not let you admit you were being misleading just as your pride will not allow you to admit you are wrong when the evidence is presented in front of you.
I would admit I was misleading if I had been. You’re failure to understand the study is not my fault.
RE: Just because someone voted for Obama doesn’t mean that they have to defend all that he does.
I’m getting fucking sick of you, man. I fucking TOLD you that I’m upset over Obama’s decision on Afghanistan. I fucking TOLD you I’m upset over his lack of action in regards to gay rights. Yet you have the fucking nerve to tell me I defend everything Obama?! You either have a very low level of reading comprehension or you’re being intentionally stupid. Either way, fuck you.
RE: The Daily Show is your style???? Jon Stewart has said time and again it is not a news show, it is strictly a comedy show.
Yep. And yet that link I sent showed that viewers of the Daily Show have greater knowledge on world affairs and politics than those who watch Fox News, CNN, etc etc. It may be a comedy show, but it’s also the most informative. Which isn’t just a compliment to Jon Stewart but a true testament to the failure of other news entities. A comedy show is providing news better than actual news shows!! How sad is that??
RE: I am all for health care reform but not government controlled.
Then don’t sign up for the public option and your health care won’t be government controlled. Jesus.
RE: You think all fox does is demonize the left, fox never attacks anyone personally, something cnn, msnbc, hln do on a daily bases.
First, it’s spelled “basis”. Second, you claim Fox NEVER attacks anyone personally? Okay then, here’s Hannity personally attacking Obama because he had mustard on a burger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaYLo76RrEE&feature=related. Here’s O’Reilly personally attacking Al Franken, calling him a “pinhead”:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8JRUlDpY8k&feature=PlayList&p=BE79A795D3A83924&index=33. And here’s Glenn Beck personally attacking Obama by calling him a racist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxLJVVhcDqE.
RE: You think cnn is the least bias? Wow
Please find me clips of CNN personally attacking political figures like the clips I provided above. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
RE: That study you presented does not draw any REAL conclusions, what does “a high knowledge of politics and world affairs” even mean?
If you read the study (and I know it’s quite lengthy), you’d know exactly how this was tested. It’s pretty self-explanatory.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 1:21am Report
1. If you cannot see that with health care the choice is unfair because it forces people into the system then we cannot talk about this issue anymore. We all know that the vast majority of people in this country are happy with their current coverage and at least they are allowed to make the choice. This bill is the first step in wealth redistribution tactics that Obama so believes in. There is a very small number of people in this country that would like to have coverage and cannot afford it, those people need to work harder. Everyone is looking for a handout and Obama is trying to give them. Of course people are going to sign on, it’s a win win for them, but a lose lose for the federal government, look at Medicare and Medicaid, both horribly failed programs. You still will not answer where the money is going to come from, you know why? Nobody knows, from China maybe. Obama fully believes in a socialistic system where everyone draws from the pot, the health care bill is part of that pot, that is radical. The bill will help fuel Obama’s hopes of stealing money from the rich and dispersing it to the poor, that is radical. The health care bill itself is not radical, everything that is behind it and comes with it is.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 1:32am Report
2. You don’t think that the leaders of Iran, North Korea, China, Russia, most of the middle east and the world are looking at Obama like he is weak? Iran has said now that they will do whatever they want, they never said that with Bush in office. Diplomacy works with most nations, not all. It never worked with Saddam and you see what happened there. I have traveled all over the world, over 55 countries in the last 4 years and I have seen how people look at our fed gov. People always said they disliked Bush but respected him (especially in war), and now it is the other way around. Don’t assume anything, I have lived among many different cultures and believe that they should always be respected. I am not closed minded at all when it comes to foreign affairs, it is my area of expertise, especially the middle east. World leaders show no respect for Obama. He needs to stop trying to be liked and start trying to be respected, because that is all that matters. Who gives a flying fuck if anyone likes us? Why are we trying to make friends? The bombs on Japan showed the world that they will respect us. People in other countries really like Americans, they do envy us and are jealous of us as well, but for the most part they really like us, I can tell you from experience.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 1:36am Report
3. The czar jobs are really “gimme” jobs. The advisers he appointed are all super left wing, and you don’t think that effects policy decision and advice to the president, it is what these people base their lives off of, of course their ideology is going to sway their advice giving. This is another example of people looking the other way. Them doing their jobs is irrelevant to the nature of this discussion.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 1:40am 4.
Owed back taxes like many Americans, hahaha, what world do you live in? This is another example of you looking the other way. I have never owed taxes to the government, and I don’t know of anyone in my family that owes. We are all responsible individuals that pay our taxes. You honestly think that if Geithner or Daschle didn’t get caught they would have paid???
By the way I love how you throw out your opinion and say that the criticism falls flat because that in itself is just another opinion of yours.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 1:52am
I have noticed that you are getting mad, why? People generally do not say ignorant fucking buffoon unless they are pretty mad. Just Relax, everything is going to be ok
5. Why are children singing his praises? Can you imagine if Bush had done this? The backlash that would have proceeded, holy crap. Children should never be influenced to approve or deny a president, they are just children. I don’t preach my ideology to my 6 year old sister, it is just wrong. I think we are talking about two separate instances, have you watched the full video??? The heavy dose of progressive ideology that is being pushed on today’s children in schools cannot be denied and it is sickening, it takes indoctrination to a whole new level and a whole new low.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 1:57am
6. Obama and the special interests believe in a unified system that will control and legislate on a world level. Why do you think there are diplomats meeting in Europe this week to sign pieces of legislation that will be governed throughout the world. The emissions tax that will take money from nations that use a lot of oil resources and give it to other nations that haven’t used is a perfect example of this. This is what you get for watching CNN, PMSNBC and PBS, they will not cover this very much. BBC and FOX will.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 2:12am
7. From the get go, from the moment the sperm hits the egg, we have the fundamental beginning of LIFE. Right away the sex is determined. The brain, spinal cord, hair, skin, heart and circulatory system forms in the first 4 weeks. Those are all separate of the mother! From the beginning the baby’s blood is separate of the mother’s. Just because the baby DEPENDS on the mother doesn’t make it EQUAL to the mother, the baby depends on the mother more when it gets outside of the womb than inside. Your lame attempt at logic doesn’t work. “Potential life until birth” and “a 14 year old having to tell her parents is enough consequence” statements are what keep pro-choicer’s thinking they are morally sound.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 2:23am Report
8. I watch Fox everyday, BBC almost everyday and cnn, pmsnbc and hln a few times a week. CNN, HLN, MSNBC rarely if ever have right wing guests on their programs. They are not moderately left, they are far left. They attempt to demonize fox news and talk bad about fox news. Now if you watch Fox you will never hear a word uttered about the other news orgs, Fox doesn’t want to give them the press, it’s brilliant! I love Olbermann… when he is covering sports. He is soon going back to sports because his show is doing so poorly. He is very witty and funny, but that by no means makes him intelligent. With Olbermann, you will hear a lot of talk about right wing policies in a negative light, talk about fox news in a negative light, political commentary with a leftist angle, personal attacks on right wingers and no political commentary from the right. On O’Reilly you will see political commentary from right and left angles, you will see objective commentary against right wing and left wing policies, you will never see personal attacks just attacks on policy issues and you will ALWAYS see left wing commentators.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 2:34am Report
9. In today’s world, we as Americans have recognized a huge threat to our safety and security, even Obama knows that. I would have loved to have been there on the first day when he got his security briefings and intelligence briefings for the first time, I’m sure he was shocked. It is the first role of our president to ensure the safety and security of every American, a daunting task, right?? If we did not have the patriot act we would not have foiled the many attempts planned to hinder our safety and security. Are they tapping every line? Hell No, they are listening to those that could potentially serve a threat. I think our individual freedom would be at risk if EVERYONE was being watched, but we know that is not the case. There is a fine line between this being within the confines of the constitution or not. I wouldn’t want to make that decision, would you?? I am in agreement with the program because it does help with intel, it does help keep us safe from attacks, it’s proven to work and like I said before if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear. I think it would be very unconstitutional if it initiated the infrastructure to tap everyone, which it does not.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 2:40am Report
10. I have friends that were fighting when we almost had bin laden in 2001, they have reported to me that the reasons they didn’t catch him were: massive amounts of insurgents around bin laden, heavy fighting because of them and the terrain. I have also heard that the backlash theory was said in hopes that bin laden would let his defenses down a little. Many people don’t realize that bin laden has vast resources that help keep him alive. He also knows that if he dies, al-qieda dies too.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 2:44am Report
11. Obama has never said, nor will he ever say that he is revoking the patriot act, because he knows the program works. Like I said, the fact that it saves many lives overpowers the fact that it is slightly unconstitutional.
The Bush Admin, Colin Powell, did lie to the American public about the “reasons” for going to war. In doing so they kept us safe from the truth. They had no choice but to lie. If they told us the real reasons they also tell the terrorists and the strategy is null and void.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 2:56am Report
12. You know that we have massive amounts of oil reserves in this country that have never even been exposed. 500 billion barrels under texas, 500 billion under north dakota, 1 trillion under the rocky mountains. The strategy has always been to deplete the middle east of all it’s resources because that is where all of their power is derive from. Most middle eastern countries are sitting at less than half of their oil reserves and when it is gone they will literally have nothing. Everyone will say that we have a dependency on foreign oil, this is ludicrous but makes sense to most people. We have refineries in this country, we refine all of Mexico’s gasoline in Texas and sell it back to them for triple the price. We are not dependent, we are depleting. And just think we already control oil in central asia, most of africa, most of central america, most of south america, europe, east asia, and eventually all of the middle east. Do you think there is any other reason to have as many military bases in Saudi Arabia as we do? What is more amazing is that the middle east is blind to all of this. Alternative energy is a farse, it is a cover-up; there is way too much money in OIL.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 3:01am
13. It does not matter that public opinion had been swayed against the war, Bush was already re-elected and you see that Obama has really changed nothing. We just build a 600 million dollar embassy complex in Baghdad, we are not leaving for a very long time.
I don’t think that you will ever fully grasp the concept that the true strategy could not be told to the world, in doing so we saved our asses. You have to remember, liberation of the Iraqi people was a key element to the strategy. I thank the brave men and women who are there now, who have been and who have died. Even Saddam’s children have said the world is a better place without him.
Ryan Williams December 7 at 3:03am
YOU: Just because you’re comfortable being watched by big brother 24/7 doesn’t mean everyone else is. You forget you’re not the only citizen in this country. The majority, I guarantee, would NOT feel comfortable with that.
ME: You can’t guarantee an opinion
If people knew their lives were being saved they would say “tap everything”
Ryan Williams December 7 at 3:10am
Obama sees a world of the collective, not the individual. He believes that government can fix the problems of the nation when we all know that it is the people that will eventually fix it. He doesn’t believe in capitalism mainly because he has no idea what the private sector, entrepreneurship and the drive of the individual really mean because he has never experienced them. He believes that government, not the citizens, should shape our future and map out plans. We all know that limited government, low taxes, free markets, fiscal responsibility and a focus on the individual will return us to prosperity but those are all things he is strongly against. Will we be fine with Obama’s policies? Of course. Will it be the America we remember and love? Not even close
(see next note for part 2)